ROMAIN GAVRAS
MEET THE BAD BOY OF EUROPEAN FILM AND MUSIC VIDEO WORLD
ROMAIN GAVRAS
MEET THE BAD BOY OF EUROPEAN FILM AND MUSIC VIDEO WORLD
HIS VIDEO "STRESS" FOR JUSTICE HAS BEEN BANNED FROM MANY TV CHANNELS (AND STILL CAN'T BE FOUND ON YOUTUBE IN SOME COUNTRIES) DUE TO ITS "EXTREME VIOLENCE". HIS EVERY PROJECT - FROM M.I.A.'S "BORN FREE" WITH GINGER GENOCIDE TO KANYE WEST'S "NO CHURCH IN THE WILD" WITH STREET VIOLENCE - IS A DARE. ROMAIN WORKS AGAINST RULES AND STEREOTYPES. ÉTAGE TEAM MET ROMAIN IN ALMATY, WHERE HE CAME TO LOOK FOR "GRAND LANDSCAPES" FOR HIS NEW FILM PROJECT.
HIS VIDEO "STRESS" FOR JUSTICE HAS BEEN BANNED FROM MANY TV CHANNELS (AND STILL CAN'T BE FOUND ON YOUTUBE IN SOME COUNTRIES) DUE TO ITS "EXTREME VIOLENCE". HIS EVERY PROJECT - FROM M.I.A.'S "BORN FREE" WITH GINGER GENOCIDE TO KANYE WEST'S "NO CHURCH IN THE WILD" WITH STREET VIOLENCE - IS A DARE. ROMAIN WORKS AGAINST RULES AND STEREOTYPES. ÉTAGE TEAM MET ROMAIN IN ALMATY, WHERE HE CAME TO LOOK FOR "GRAND LANDSCAPES" FOR HIS NEW FILM PROJECT.
— We wanted to talk about your career as a director, and as a film producer. Our first question is about your first film, how did you start?
— I started with a group of friends, when we were 15 or 16 – it was just when the DV camera began to happen, just before computers. My friend would come over with a VHS player, and we would edit. Usually new forms of cinema or ways of filming appear with new technology, and at the time it was because those new cameras became available. In France there was a family camera, a high aid, a video aid and a DV, so we started with that, skipping school and making small films. Little by little, by the time we were 22, we released a DVD of all our short movies and music videos, and distributed it through an independent French company. We sold a lot of copies, it became quite a sensation, and since then we started doing bigger projects, and finally shot my first feature film in 2010 with a French actor Vincent Cassel, who produced and starred in it. But everything I know comes from the time we started... the best way to learn for a director is by making movies. That was what I did.
— I started with a group of friends, when we were 15 or 16 – it was just when the DV camera began to happen, just before computers. My friend would come over with a VHS player, and we would edit. Usually new forms of cinema or ways of filming appear with new technology, and at the time it was because those new cameras became available. In France there was a family camera, a high aid, a video aid and a DV, so we started with that, skipping school and making small films. Little by little, by the time we were 22, we released a DVD of all our short movies and music videos, and distributed it through an independent French company. We sold a lot of copies, it became quite a sensation, and since then we started doing bigger projects, and finally shot my first feature film in 2010 with a French actor Vincent Cassel, who produced and starred in it. But everything I know comes from the time we started... the best way to learn for a director is by making movies. That was what I did.
— Your father Costa Gavras is an Oscar-wining director and producer, among his many other international film awards. Did he help you to go in cinematic direction? Was he an inspiration for you?
— Yes, of course, when your whole family is into cinema, you talk about it at the dinner table, and then you go see movies and talk about them. I was going to the cinema as long as I can remember myself. I grew up in a film family, so there was no other choice but to make films. At the same time, I didn't want to show my dad or mom some of the earlier things I made. I just showed them to my brother. I was very shy. For quite a bit I was shooting films on my own, and showing them to my family later, when I felt more confident about stuff I was making.
— Yes, of course, when your whole family is into cinema, you talk about it at the dinner table, and then you go see movies and talk about them. I was going to the cinema as long as I can remember myself. I grew up in a film family, so there was no other choice but to make films. At the same time, I didn't want to show my dad or mom some of the earlier things I made. I just showed them to my brother. I was very shy. For quite a bit I was shooting films on my own, and showing them to my family later, when I felt more confident about stuff I was making.
— You said that you didn't have a choice, but have you ever dreamed about becoming someone else?
— Oh, no no (laughs). From a very young age I knew this was what I wanted to do. I enjoy making long feature films, short films, music videos, and sometimes commercials. I come from a generation raised by television, so I don't necessary think that films are a noble art, and you can't do something else. I think it's good to do a bit of everything.
— We watched pretty much all of the music videos that you've made, most of them are pretty aggressive and rebellious. Where does it come from? Why are you interested in this part of human nature?
— It depends, some of the videos have humor in them as well, and some are very serious. I don't know, I can't really point out where it comes from. In Paris, it's interesting, people are mixed up. When I was growing up, there were kids from the ghetto, and kids with money in my class, all mixed together. So the 90's in France was quite an aggressive time. French rappers were out, there were riots, I saw it all. Besides, the world is quite an aggressive place.
— So actually you didn't undermine this part of human nature, it was your reality?
— Yeah, you know, it's from the stuff you see, and from the stuff you feel about the world, and like we see it now, especially this year, this summer, the clash of civilisations is coming, bit by bit. And when people ask me about violence in my videos, saying that the world is a much better place, I recommend them to watch the news, because reality is worse than the most violent video or film you can ever make.
— How do you choose artists you work with? I assume very few artists would trust a director like you to make their music video. You say you need freedom in creating your work, and you won't play by somebody else's rules. How does this work?
— I mostly work with friends. All the artists I made videos for are my friends, like the boys from Justice or Maya (*better known for her stage name M.I.A. – Etage). And when Kanye West and Jay-Z approached me, I told them that I would only do it if they left me completely alone and trust me, and they did (music video "No church in the wild", – Etage).. I'm only interested in making videos as I see them, as little things of their own. They are not necessarily made to promote a disk or an artist, they are pieces of art collaboration between music and film.
— I noticed that. For instance, video "Stress" for Justice really put me through stress, and I was waiting for it to finish, because I was literally stressed by it. It felt like I was watching a short film rather than just a music video.
— Yes, and sometimes I experiment with genres, for example, embracing all the codes of pop music video in M.I.A.'s "Bad Girls". Different things interest me at different times.
— I found it very edgy, and to me it's not offensive, since I come from a different culture, but is still funny and kitsch... I found it very cool.
— The idea was to make a normal pop video. What is a normal pop video? It has playback, dancing, singing, and bright colors. But instead of usual ingredients, I put the things Americans perceive as attributes of the enemy, and made people dance to it. It was just a way to explore the genre of pop music videos, but it was cool that everybody liked it, from Americas to Arab world. Everybody had fun with it.
— Oh, no no (laughs). From a very young age I knew this was what I wanted to do. I enjoy making long feature films, short films, music videos, and sometimes commercials. I come from a generation raised by television, so I don't necessary think that films are a noble art, and you can't do something else. I think it's good to do a bit of everything.
— We watched pretty much all of the music videos that you've made, most of them are pretty aggressive and rebellious. Where does it come from? Why are you interested in this part of human nature?
— It depends, some of the videos have humor in them as well, and some are very serious. I don't know, I can't really point out where it comes from. In Paris, it's interesting, people are mixed up. When I was growing up, there were kids from the ghetto, and kids with money in my class, all mixed together. So the 90's in France was quite an aggressive time. French rappers were out, there were riots, I saw it all. Besides, the world is quite an aggressive place.
— So actually you didn't undermine this part of human nature, it was your reality?
— Yeah, you know, it's from the stuff you see, and from the stuff you feel about the world, and like we see it now, especially this year, this summer, the clash of civilisations is coming, bit by bit. And when people ask me about violence in my videos, saying that the world is a much better place, I recommend them to watch the news, because reality is worse than the most violent video or film you can ever make.
— How do you choose artists you work with? I assume very few artists would trust a director like you to make their music video. You say you need freedom in creating your work, and you won't play by somebody else's rules. How does this work?
— I mostly work with friends. All the artists I made videos for are my friends, like the boys from Justice or Maya (*better known for her stage name M.I.A. – Etage). And when Kanye West and Jay-Z approached me, I told them that I would only do it if they left me completely alone and trust me, and they did (music video "No church in the wild", – Etage).. I'm only interested in making videos as I see them, as little things of their own. They are not necessarily made to promote a disk or an artist, they are pieces of art collaboration between music and film.
— I noticed that. For instance, video "Stress" for Justice really put me through stress, and I was waiting for it to finish, because I was literally stressed by it. It felt like I was watching a short film rather than just a music video.
— Yes, and sometimes I experiment with genres, for example, embracing all the codes of pop music video in M.I.A.'s "Bad Girls". Different things interest me at different times.
— I found it very edgy, and to me it's not offensive, since I come from a different culture, but is still funny and kitsch... I found it very cool.
— The idea was to make a normal pop video. What is a normal pop video? It has playback, dancing, singing, and bright colors. But instead of usual ingredients, I put the things Americans perceive as attributes of the enemy, and made people dance to it. It was just a way to explore the genre of pop music videos, but it was cool that everybody liked it, from Americas to Arab world. Everybody had fun with it.
"I TOLD THEM THAT
I WOULD ONLY DO IT IF THEY LEFT ME COMPLETELY ALONE
AND TRUST ME,
AND THEY DID"
I WOULD ONLY DO IT IF THEY LEFT ME COMPLETELY ALONE
AND TRUST ME,
AND THEY DID"
"I TOLD THEM THAT
I WOULD ONLY DO IT IF THEY LEFT ME COMPLETELY ALONE
AND TRUST ME,
AND THEY DID"
I WOULD ONLY DO IT IF THEY LEFT ME COMPLETELY ALONE
AND TRUST ME,
AND THEY DID"
Dior HOMME Commercial
Led Zeppelin "Whole Lotta Love", Robert Pattinson (2013)
— And I know you work with advertising as well, how is that for you? How does it fit in with your art career?
— The way it works is that my music videos and films usually don't get enough funding. Even the music videos I shoot for big artists don't get enough money to do what I want to do with them. So, my crew, from producer and set designer to director of photography usually work for free for my stuff, and then I go make some commercials on the side to pay everybody and try new things. It's always good to try new cameras, new toys, because in advertising I'm lucky enough to do big projects with gigantic budgets. One minute commercial can cost as much as my whole first feature film. But I try not to do too much of commercial stuff in order not to turn into a crazy advertising director.
— The way it works is that my music videos and films usually don't get enough funding. Even the music videos I shoot for big artists don't get enough money to do what I want to do with them. So, my crew, from producer and set designer to director of photography usually work for free for my stuff, and then I go make some commercials on the side to pay everybody and try new things. It's always good to try new cameras, new toys, because in advertising I'm lucky enough to do big projects with gigantic budgets. One minute commercial can cost as much as my whole first feature film. But I try not to do too much of commercial stuff in order not to turn into a crazy advertising director.
— Speaking of feature films, are you working on something new at the moment?
— I just finished writing a new thing, and it was one of the reasons I came to Kazakhstan — I'm looking for interesting locations for my next project. I'm at a stage now when I have a script, and I need to find money, location, and actors.
— Wow, so potentially you might shoot here?..
— Potentially. The nature here is gorgeous, and you have Kazakhfilm with tech, crew, talent, skill and material, so it's an option, it's possible. I need grand landscapes for this film.
— When are you planning to start?
— With film it's always tricky, when you think you have everything, your actor may say: "I'm not doing this", or you lose money, or something else. I'm not superstitious, but usually it's better not to talk about it too much before it's made.
— Vincent Cassel starred in and produced your first feature, "Notre Jour Viendra" (Our Day Will Come). How often do you work with him?
— He's been helping me since I was quite young and making short movies. He appeared in a few of our earlier shorts, and it made sense that when I had my first feature ready, he helped to produce it. It's easier to get financed with a big movie star like him on board, and you have a great actor in your cast. I know we will work together in the future, we are good friends.
— I just finished writing a new thing, and it was one of the reasons I came to Kazakhstan — I'm looking for interesting locations for my next project. I'm at a stage now when I have a script, and I need to find money, location, and actors.
— Wow, so potentially you might shoot here?..
— Potentially. The nature here is gorgeous, and you have Kazakhfilm with tech, crew, talent, skill and material, so it's an option, it's possible. I need grand landscapes for this film.
— When are you planning to start?
— With film it's always tricky, when you think you have everything, your actor may say: "I'm not doing this", or you lose money, or something else. I'm not superstitious, but usually it's better not to talk about it too much before it's made.
— Vincent Cassel starred in and produced your first feature, "Notre Jour Viendra" (Our Day Will Come). How often do you work with him?
— He's been helping me since I was quite young and making short movies. He appeared in a few of our earlier shorts, and it made sense that when I had my first feature ready, he helped to produce it. It's easier to get financed with a big movie star like him on board, and you have a great actor in your cast. I know we will work together in the future, we are good friends.
"THERE ARE A LOT
OF GREAT PROFESSIONALS, BUT TO MIX REAL ACTORS AND PEOPLE FROM THE STREET
CREATES SOMETHING EXTRAORDINARY"
OF GREAT PROFESSIONALS, BUT TO MIX REAL ACTORS AND PEOPLE FROM THE STREET
CREATES SOMETHING EXTRAORDINARY"
"THERE ARE A LOT
OF GREAT PROFESSIONALS, BUT TO MIX REAL ACTORS AND PEOPLE FROM THE STREET
CREATES SOMETHING EXTRAORDINARY"
OF GREAT PROFESSIONALS, BUT TO MIX REAL ACTORS AND PEOPLE FROM THE STREET
CREATES SOMETHING EXTRAORDINARY"
— I know that you also like to get non-professional actors in your films, is that true?
— Usually I like to mix and match, have a couple of professional actors mixed with the street cast. I love finding actors, who are not actors, because you get something that's very different from them. There are a lot of great professionals, but to mix real actors and people from the street creates something extraordinary.
— Is it very difficult to raise money for a new project?
— That's the thing, when you only have non-professional actors, it's really difficult, because the only way to raise money now is to bring in a big star. Nobody cares about directors any more, except if you are Steven Spielberg or George Lukas.
— They want to make sure that the film sells.
— Exactly, they want to make sure that the film sells. It depends on the scale of the budget. If your film is not expensive, you maybe can afford a non-famous actor, and you make it with very short money. But as soon as your film comes in a certain price range, you have to go big; there is no way around it.
— How much would a European low budget film cost?
— There are different low budgets. For example, my feature cost 1,5 million euros, which is still considered low budget, but we had freedom to make it very good. We shot on 35mm, and we had a good crew. You can shoot a film under 500 000 euros, but it's a different story, different crew, and different cameras. You can make a film between 100 000 euros and a million euros, and still be considered a low budget project.
— Usually I like to mix and match, have a couple of professional actors mixed with the street cast. I love finding actors, who are not actors, because you get something that's very different from them. There are a lot of great professionals, but to mix real actors and people from the street creates something extraordinary.
— Is it very difficult to raise money for a new project?
— That's the thing, when you only have non-professional actors, it's really difficult, because the only way to raise money now is to bring in a big star. Nobody cares about directors any more, except if you are Steven Spielberg or George Lukas.
— They want to make sure that the film sells.
— Exactly, they want to make sure that the film sells. It depends on the scale of the budget. If your film is not expensive, you maybe can afford a non-famous actor, and you make it with very short money. But as soon as your film comes in a certain price range, you have to go big; there is no way around it.
— How much would a European low budget film cost?
— There are different low budgets. For example, my feature cost 1,5 million euros, which is still considered low budget, but we had freedom to make it very good. We shot on 35mm, and we had a good crew. You can shoot a film under 500 000 euros, but it's a different story, different crew, and different cameras. You can make a film between 100 000 euros and a million euros, and still be considered a low budget project.
— Going back to your family, do you feel like your father's career is dominating over yours?
— I don't really see it like that because we have a very healthy relationship, we talk about my scripts, I actually make him read them. My brothers and sister are also directors, so we talk about film stuff, and then we all know that, how do you say that in English - "you have to kill the father" — I know we can't kill the father because his career is so big that we have to find other ways to express ourselves. I don't see it in a positive or negative way; I don't read into the story like that.
— What inspires you today?
— A lot of stuff, I was always focusing on Europe with my film and videos, and I never wanted to go to the US to make films, because we've seen the US from every angle, in every story. This is why when I travel, I like coming to other places... like with my videos, I was trying to create new icons for the pop world: street kids from Paris in "Stress", or crazy drifters in "Signatune" — stuff that you don't normally see in the pop world. This is why I'm interested to come to places like Kazakhstan — to see how modern culture is translated in a country we don't usually see represented in the Western pop culture. So, the things that inspire me mostly lately are new places. Everybody does the same thing in Europe: young directors go to the US as soon as they have a bit of light shun on them. I think it's a shame, because they just repeat a common pattern that we see all the time in movies. We should develop our own cinema and identity as European artists.
— Why do European directors go to Hollywood?
— It's appealing: when you start to get attention, you get those scripts from big studios saying: "Hey, there is an action movie with blah- blah-blah in it, it's not very interesting to do, but why not try it?", and when you are young it's hard to say no, so a lot them go to Hollywood thinking they are going to make it there. It's a shame that a lot of good young European directors go there. I think you should go to Hollywood when you are a strong established director to make what you want there, because Hollywood style just eats the young ones up.
— Have you ever had a great idea that nobody agreed with?
— We will see with my next film, I'm at the point when the script is in the hands of actors and the money people, so we'll see if they trust me with that.
— Do you work with the same producer all the time?
— I worked with the same producer on all of my music videos and commercials, but he didn't produce my first film. It's going to be the first time we work together on a film. É
— I don't really see it like that because we have a very healthy relationship, we talk about my scripts, I actually make him read them. My brothers and sister are also directors, so we talk about film stuff, and then we all know that, how do you say that in English - "you have to kill the father" — I know we can't kill the father because his career is so big that we have to find other ways to express ourselves. I don't see it in a positive or negative way; I don't read into the story like that.
— What inspires you today?
— A lot of stuff, I was always focusing on Europe with my film and videos, and I never wanted to go to the US to make films, because we've seen the US from every angle, in every story. This is why when I travel, I like coming to other places... like with my videos, I was trying to create new icons for the pop world: street kids from Paris in "Stress", or crazy drifters in "Signatune" — stuff that you don't normally see in the pop world. This is why I'm interested to come to places like Kazakhstan — to see how modern culture is translated in a country we don't usually see represented in the Western pop culture. So, the things that inspire me mostly lately are new places. Everybody does the same thing in Europe: young directors go to the US as soon as they have a bit of light shun on them. I think it's a shame, because they just repeat a common pattern that we see all the time in movies. We should develop our own cinema and identity as European artists.
— Why do European directors go to Hollywood?
— It's appealing: when you start to get attention, you get those scripts from big studios saying: "Hey, there is an action movie with blah- blah-blah in it, it's not very interesting to do, but why not try it?", and when you are young it's hard to say no, so a lot them go to Hollywood thinking they are going to make it there. It's a shame that a lot of good young European directors go there. I think you should go to Hollywood when you are a strong established director to make what you want there, because Hollywood style just eats the young ones up.
— Have you ever had a great idea that nobody agreed with?
— We will see with my next film, I'm at the point when the script is in the hands of actors and the money people, so we'll see if they trust me with that.
— Do you work with the same producer all the time?
— I worked with the same producer on all of my music videos and commercials, but he didn't produce my first film. It's going to be the first time we work together on a film. É
Interview: Étage Magazine
Photography: Alice Moitié
Date: July 25, 2016