Кинотеатр Арман
ЛЮДИ СТРОЯТ —
ВРЕМЯ СТИРАЕТ
Кинотеатр Арман
ЛЮДИ СТРОЯТ —
ВРЕМЯ СТИРАЕТ
"ARMAN ALMA-ATA" IS A PROJECT DEDICATED TO THE CITY, OR RATHER ITS HISTORICAL HERITAGE. THE PROJECT WAS CREATED BY ASEL YESZHANOVA AND DASTAN BISSEN (FOUNDERS OF THE ARCHITECTURAL FIRM BUREAU ADDRESS) WITH THE SUPPORT OF LONDON'S ARCHITECTURAL BUREAU ATOMIK ARCHITECTURE, WHOSE REPRESENTATIVES ARE MIKE OADES AND DEREK JOHN DRAPER. AT THE ROUND TABLE WE SPOKE ABOUT THE UNIQUENESS OF ALMATY LANDSCAPES AND THE FUTURE PLANS OF THE PROJECT.
What was your first experience of Kazakhstan?
Mike: My first experience of Kazakhstan was really working from London on the Palace of Peace. Looking at site photographs that were taken of Astana, a building site in winter. Until last year that was the only reference I had of Kazakhstan, looking like a scene from the Tarkovsky film "Stalker". The opportunity to work again in Kazakhstan came last year. We were invited to participate in the international competition to design the Expo 2017 Green Quarter project. I turned up in Almaty last April and I couldn't believe my eyes. First of all you read the landscape and the mountains and the location. That's kind of the first thing that hits you. I arrived in Almaty and I was just completely blown away by the city. I had come to Kazakhstan for two days, to present the competition design, with just an overnight bag, but due to a number of circumstances I ended up spending almost two months here.
Derek: I think my experience was totally different because, unlike Mike, I have only been here for a week, but have known Asel for several years. Certainly for the last three years Asel has been encouraging me to come over, saying I've got to come and see the city. I have built up an image of the city from all these little elements, like Asel's photographs, little stories, and then experience from these guys coming over. So it has been really interesting actually piecing all these things together before I came and then to compare them now that I am here.
What about past architectural projects? Do you have the most favorite one?
Derek: One of my favorites was one we did a couple of years ago on island in Amiens, France. The River Somme runs through Amiens and it kind of forms these big areas of lagoons. There are about 300 hectares of lakes and islands. We were asked as part of the art festival to install art pieces on these islands. There was the most amazing landscape. It took about half an hour by boat to get to our site. But the thing I really like about the project is that we were involved in every aspect: we used the workshop; we built all the components and then installed them ourselves.
Did you have projects connected with restoration of buildings, having historical value?
Derek: Yes, for example Cambridge University Library, it was built in 1931 by the architect Sir Giles Gilbert Scott; who designed "Bankside" Power Station now "Tate Modern" and the iconic London telephone box. Since the building was finished Cambridge as a city has grown around it. It was located on the edge of the city at the time it was built. The formal approach to the building has now changed. The main access to the building is dominated by a busy car park. We were asked for the competition to try to transform that area into something else that would be appropriate to the library building. So we turned the landscape into a bit of a jungle for the first round of the competition.
How long have you been working together?
Mike: Derek and I got together in September 2013. We both had our own projects and were living in a very similar part of London. We ended up collaborating on a couple of projects, which we enjoyed and we decided that maybe this is what we should do.
Mike: My first experience of Kazakhstan was really working from London on the Palace of Peace. Looking at site photographs that were taken of Astana, a building site in winter. Until last year that was the only reference I had of Kazakhstan, looking like a scene from the Tarkovsky film "Stalker". The opportunity to work again in Kazakhstan came last year. We were invited to participate in the international competition to design the Expo 2017 Green Quarter project. I turned up in Almaty last April and I couldn't believe my eyes. First of all you read the landscape and the mountains and the location. That's kind of the first thing that hits you. I arrived in Almaty and I was just completely blown away by the city. I had come to Kazakhstan for two days, to present the competition design, with just an overnight bag, but due to a number of circumstances I ended up spending almost two months here.
Derek: I think my experience was totally different because, unlike Mike, I have only been here for a week, but have known Asel for several years. Certainly for the last three years Asel has been encouraging me to come over, saying I've got to come and see the city. I have built up an image of the city from all these little elements, like Asel's photographs, little stories, and then experience from these guys coming over. So it has been really interesting actually piecing all these things together before I came and then to compare them now that I am here.
What about past architectural projects? Do you have the most favorite one?
Derek: One of my favorites was one we did a couple of years ago on island in Amiens, France. The River Somme runs through Amiens and it kind of forms these big areas of lagoons. There are about 300 hectares of lakes and islands. We were asked as part of the art festival to install art pieces on these islands. There was the most amazing landscape. It took about half an hour by boat to get to our site. But the thing I really like about the project is that we were involved in every aspect: we used the workshop; we built all the components and then installed them ourselves.
Did you have projects connected with restoration of buildings, having historical value?
Derek: Yes, for example Cambridge University Library, it was built in 1931 by the architect Sir Giles Gilbert Scott; who designed "Bankside" Power Station now "Tate Modern" and the iconic London telephone box. Since the building was finished Cambridge as a city has grown around it. It was located on the edge of the city at the time it was built. The formal approach to the building has now changed. The main access to the building is dominated by a busy car park. We were asked for the competition to try to transform that area into something else that would be appropriate to the library building. So we turned the landscape into a bit of a jungle for the first round of the competition.
How long have you been working together?
Mike: Derek and I got together in September 2013. We both had our own projects and were living in a very similar part of London. We ended up collaborating on a couple of projects, which we enjoyed and we decided that maybe this is what we should do.
«WOULD YOU LIKE TO HAVE THE BUILDINGS IN YOUR CITY WHICH WILL ABSOLUTELY THE SAME AS IN DUBAI OR LONDON OR HONG-KONG OR YOU WOULD PREFER TO HAVE SOMETHING UNIQUE THAT WOULD REFLECT YOUR CULTURE, YOUR HISTORY.»
What was the 1rst step in creation of "Arman Alma-Ata" and what is the purpose of this project?
Asel: Actually Derek was the first person who influenced us to initiate the project "Arman Alma-Ata". Three years ago when I just had left "Aedas Architects" in London to study in New York to obtain my master degree. Soon after I had left, Derek sent me some images done for the "10x10 London" project — I loved this idea: when architects sort of research the city by producing sketch- es and the drawings of the city and then images are sold to raise money for charity. Then we have sent books about Almaty architecture to Mike. And sometimes I feel like he knows more about Almaty buildings than the locals.
Mike: Through architecture, "Arman Alma-Ata" is trying to celebrate the uniqueness of the city of Almaty. In terms of the name "Arman Alma-Ata" it is really looking at the historical context of Almaty and trying to understand what has been lost, or could be lost. There is a nostalgic idea of what Almaty was in terms of a city, as the place of the apple orchards, for example. "Arman Alma-Ata" also provides a moment to pause and consider what the built environment was as well. How that identity is understood and can contribute to the future identity of Almaty.
Derek: Not blocking the breezes that come down from the mountains by obstructing the landscape with buildings — that is a really strong environmental idea for example.
Mike: The aryks! The aryks are perfect example of how you make your environment cooler in a hot climate. They are beautiful.
Dastan: It is such a part of Almaty. It is so unique and charming!
Mike: It has an environmental purpose, but there is an irrigation purpose as well. You irrigate the land, the trees grow, they shade you in summer and you've got cool aryk water. A very interesting and poetic little story there environmentally. We would give our hind teeth for a landscape scheme like that in the UK. I can just imagine presenting it: we going to have running water, running through open rill in the street.
It is a gridded city, wide tree lined avenues the aryks running through them. And you have these quite every day, quite simple and somber buildings, but there is an amount of the detail to these buildings. Every corner is slightly different. Fundamentally, if you go back to the day the buildings were built there is a similarity in the buildings: the heights, the size of the apartments, the rhythm of the streets, but in a detail there are slight changes; no one street is the same. Over time people start- ed to personalize their apartments. Changes are inevitable, the city will change.
Asel: Actually Derek was the first person who influenced us to initiate the project "Arman Alma-Ata". Three years ago when I just had left "Aedas Architects" in London to study in New York to obtain my master degree. Soon after I had left, Derek sent me some images done for the "10x10 London" project — I loved this idea: when architects sort of research the city by producing sketch- es and the drawings of the city and then images are sold to raise money for charity. Then we have sent books about Almaty architecture to Mike. And sometimes I feel like he knows more about Almaty buildings than the locals.
Mike: Through architecture, "Arman Alma-Ata" is trying to celebrate the uniqueness of the city of Almaty. In terms of the name "Arman Alma-Ata" it is really looking at the historical context of Almaty and trying to understand what has been lost, or could be lost. There is a nostalgic idea of what Almaty was in terms of a city, as the place of the apple orchards, for example. "Arman Alma-Ata" also provides a moment to pause and consider what the built environment was as well. How that identity is understood and can contribute to the future identity of Almaty.
Derek: Not blocking the breezes that come down from the mountains by obstructing the landscape with buildings — that is a really strong environmental idea for example.
Mike: The aryks! The aryks are perfect example of how you make your environment cooler in a hot climate. They are beautiful.
Dastan: It is such a part of Almaty. It is so unique and charming!
Mike: It has an environmental purpose, but there is an irrigation purpose as well. You irrigate the land, the trees grow, they shade you in summer and you've got cool aryk water. A very interesting and poetic little story there environmentally. We would give our hind teeth for a landscape scheme like that in the UK. I can just imagine presenting it: we going to have running water, running through open rill in the street.
It is a gridded city, wide tree lined avenues the aryks running through them. And you have these quite every day, quite simple and somber buildings, but there is an amount of the detail to these buildings. Every corner is slightly different. Fundamentally, if you go back to the day the buildings were built there is a similarity in the buildings: the heights, the size of the apartments, the rhythm of the streets, but in a detail there are slight changes; no one street is the same. Over time people start- ed to personalize their apartments. Changes are inevitable, the city will change.
How can you describe the situation around the conservation of the architectural heritage of Almaty?
Mike: I don't know how much consideration has been given to that discussion so far. I don't know if it really been a part of the cultural agenda so far. Perhaps it is Almaty's time for these discussions. First of all there is the need to have a discussion or debate. It does need everybody to participate. It needs the whole community to be involved. Perhaps as architects we get interested in this first like sociologists. But then politicians, the business people. It will be very interesting to have a debate with a rounder cross section of the community.
Derek: That question is the key. And that kind of question really addresses whether we are looking at the project in Almaty or in London or in Berlin. I think there is no correct answer to this question. It totally depends on the context, in each unique situation: whether you are new to a city, or whether you are someone who has lived there, or known it for 50 years. The conversation helps to get these ideas across and how you can start to addressed to the issues.
The Green Market sketch by Atomik Architecture
This year, as in the last year, you started with workshops for students, what were the results?
Mike: It has been research for us. Not really knowing where the work from the workshops will lead us at this stage. Last year, we decided to use some fresh ideas that I saw, during seminars, we came to Kazakhstan without any local cultural baggage. It is all new and shiny for us and maybe that helps to open an honest dialog with some participants in a workshop environment. Helping the participants to also look at their own city with different eyes. They started to understand a little bit more about their surroundings, actually to see the same city, but with different eyes.
And "where does it go from here?", we have started thinking that perhaps we should do this again. To utilize what we have put together. Asel and Dasstan have done an amazing job in attracting that many students in the first case. It is the first step to doing something at a larger scale perhaps.
Dastan: Well every day we had around 30 students attending during 3 days of seminars. The workshop with students has been one of the parts of "Arman Alma-Ata" project. We were supported by the local architectural school KazGASA. They funded some money for the project.
We were saying that it is actually a dialog between architects and Almaty people; the process, the journey itself is quite important in itself. Coming back to the workshops with students, we asked them to look at Almaty through past, present and to meditate on the future. We explained that the shape of the city will be in the hands of future generations of architects and planners — their hands.
Asel: Derek's dystopian sketches of Almaty showed different variations of inhabitation. If we don't control development we will get to the point of chaos and mess. I admire the fact that Derek and Mike talked a lot about the layers in the history. And this is what in many ways the locals don't see, don't appreciate, and even sometimes are ashamed of, because we link it to the Soviet past. Derek and Mike in a way encourage us to look at these layers. So the building by itself tells us a story.
Derek: We certainly spoke a lot at the workshops with the students that the city is never finished. There is no point even in the smallest parts of the town where you can say: "That is done". It is constantly evolving. We asked them to think about what various buildings were like on the day they opened. They compared these thoughts to the reality of the buildings today. Some of them are totally unrecognizable. What could the city look like in the future? Everybody agreed that there is a future in these buildings. It isn't a matter of totally flattening the site, starting again with a new canvas. There wasn't a single project within 3 days where somebody took that approach. There is something to keep or something to try to find a new use for, or whether it becomes a museum piece. And that is the challenge of the project that we looking at it is that it is such a slow process. You need a lot of time. You to need to see that change over the decades to see how the new style for Almaty will develop, new methods of addressing the built environment in the city. What strategies, what themes and what styles and approaches come through? In the workshops. For all the projects. They all were very sensitive to the built heritage. I wouldn't be surprised if in 10-15 years those people will run their own projects in Almaty that you start seeing this coming through.
Generally, there are a couple of good ideas that came out of the workshops. I was quite surprised by something that came up time and time again. That was the relationship with natural world. That was the idea of an internal courtyard with trees in and winter gardens inside the buildings and on the rooftops.
Mike: It has been research for us. Not really knowing where the work from the workshops will lead us at this stage. Last year, we decided to use some fresh ideas that I saw, during seminars, we came to Kazakhstan without any local cultural baggage. It is all new and shiny for us and maybe that helps to open an honest dialog with some participants in a workshop environment. Helping the participants to also look at their own city with different eyes. They started to understand a little bit more about their surroundings, actually to see the same city, but with different eyes.
And "where does it go from here?", we have started thinking that perhaps we should do this again. To utilize what we have put together. Asel and Dasstan have done an amazing job in attracting that many students in the first case. It is the first step to doing something at a larger scale perhaps.
Dastan: Well every day we had around 30 students attending during 3 days of seminars. The workshop with students has been one of the parts of "Arman Alma-Ata" project. We were supported by the local architectural school KazGASA. They funded some money for the project.
We were saying that it is actually a dialog between architects and Almaty people; the process, the journey itself is quite important in itself. Coming back to the workshops with students, we asked them to look at Almaty through past, present and to meditate on the future. We explained that the shape of the city will be in the hands of future generations of architects and planners — their hands.
Asel: Derek's dystopian sketches of Almaty showed different variations of inhabitation. If we don't control development we will get to the point of chaos and mess. I admire the fact that Derek and Mike talked a lot about the layers in the history. And this is what in many ways the locals don't see, don't appreciate, and even sometimes are ashamed of, because we link it to the Soviet past. Derek and Mike in a way encourage us to look at these layers. So the building by itself tells us a story.
Derek: We certainly spoke a lot at the workshops with the students that the city is never finished. There is no point even in the smallest parts of the town where you can say: "That is done". It is constantly evolving. We asked them to think about what various buildings were like on the day they opened. They compared these thoughts to the reality of the buildings today. Some of them are totally unrecognizable. What could the city look like in the future? Everybody agreed that there is a future in these buildings. It isn't a matter of totally flattening the site, starting again with a new canvas. There wasn't a single project within 3 days where somebody took that approach. There is something to keep or something to try to find a new use for, or whether it becomes a museum piece. And that is the challenge of the project that we looking at it is that it is such a slow process. You need a lot of time. You to need to see that change over the decades to see how the new style for Almaty will develop, new methods of addressing the built environment in the city. What strategies, what themes and what styles and approaches come through? In the workshops. For all the projects. They all were very sensitive to the built heritage. I wouldn't be surprised if in 10-15 years those people will run their own projects in Almaty that you start seeing this coming through.
Generally, there are a couple of good ideas that came out of the workshops. I was quite surprised by something that came up time and time again. That was the relationship with natural world. That was the idea of an internal courtyard with trees in and winter gardens inside the buildings and on the rooftops.
The Almaty circus sketch by Atomik Architecture
"IT SEEMS THAT PEOPLE ARE MORE INTERESTED IN WHAT THEIR SPACE LOOKS LIKE FROM THE INSIDE, BUT FROM THE OUTSIDE? NO ONE APPEARS TO SEE THAT AS THEIR SPACE."
"IT SEEMS THAT PEOPLE ARE MORE INTERESTED IN WHAT THEIR SPACE LOOKS LIKE FROM THE INSIDE, BUT FROM THE OUTSIDE? NO ONE APPEARS TO SEE THAT AS THEIR SPACE."
What are you planning to do next? What is the next step a er the seminars?
Dasstan: We plan to build a temporary pavilion as the next stage when we get enough support. We already have a site for the pavilion which is next to the Arman cinema. It will be in a way as a showcase not only for architects but for local people. So the temporary pavilion will be a message not only to 30 students who attended the work- shops but to everyone. It will be a question: Would you like to have the buildings in your city which will be absolutely the same as in Dubai or London or Hong-Kong or you would prefer to have some- thing unique that would reflect your culture, your history? We think the pavilion will work as a place for announcing. And it will serve as a place for leisure. People inside will enjoy the space. It could be in a way like a Serpentine pavilion in Hyde Park in London where people can experience new ways in architecture.
How do you think, why citizens of Almaty are so indifferent to their architectural and historical heritage?
Mike: I think there is an issue with pride. Pride in where you live. It feels like the public places, the in-between spaces, are someone else's problem. That actually came across while talking with the students. It seems that people are more interested in what their space looks like from the inside, but from the outside? No one appears to see that as their space. You walk around some of the housing schemes in Almaty and it is a struggle, the plants are all overgrown, the grass isn't cut and the steps are crumbling away. There are holes in the pavements. I think that is quite interesting. If there was somehow a mechanism for keeping this clean and well maintained, it could encourage a little more pride in the area. It would make a massive difference to the way people feel about the place where they live?
Asel: That is the goal of "Arman Alma-Ata" project. Pride. We want to encourage people that Almaty is beautiful. We have beautiful buildings, beautiful landscape. So you start to appreciate, you start to change. And back to your question. Maybe it is in our culture, in our mentality? Maybe it reflects who we are? Last Saturday when we were walking around, sketching the streets. We were talking about Deleuze, his idea of War Machine and State Apparatus. The French philosopher wrote about the nomads. We are just warriors, and are meant to have that kind of life style. It is a pretty philosophical approach.
There is a lot of conversation globally about modernism in architecture at the moment. Buildings from the Soviet modernism are absolutely great examples of how the architects while they were given a command to design something strictly typical and standard, they would still fight for Alma-Ata unique architecture, applying some Kazakh style, for example, The Palace of Republic or Arasan hammam.
Mike: Some of the ideas go back to some archeological things: the Sax, the golden man and things being discovered in archeological finds. It established the identity as well.
I think in terms of city tourism or urban tourism it is more of an economical issue than architectural. And it comes to the question of pride again really. I think that more people will find out about Kazakhstan. The country has an awful lot to offer in terms of tourism, in terms of scale, all the differ- ent parts of it, the various landscapes and its unique cities.
Asel: We should appreciate the fact that we have architects who put loads of effort into making really cool things. Rather than just looking at the western world. Maybe the answer is where we are at the moment. And I discovered this after be- ing away for few years. Coming back from London I found Almaty such a charming and inspiring place in many ways.
Dasstan: We plan to build a temporary pavilion as the next stage when we get enough support. We already have a site for the pavilion which is next to the Arman cinema. It will be in a way as a showcase not only for architects but for local people. So the temporary pavilion will be a message not only to 30 students who attended the work- shops but to everyone. It will be a question: Would you like to have the buildings in your city which will be absolutely the same as in Dubai or London or Hong-Kong or you would prefer to have some- thing unique that would reflect your culture, your history? We think the pavilion will work as a place for announcing. And it will serve as a place for leisure. People inside will enjoy the space. It could be in a way like a Serpentine pavilion in Hyde Park in London where people can experience new ways in architecture.
How do you think, why citizens of Almaty are so indifferent to their architectural and historical heritage?
Mike: I think there is an issue with pride. Pride in where you live. It feels like the public places, the in-between spaces, are someone else's problem. That actually came across while talking with the students. It seems that people are more interested in what their space looks like from the inside, but from the outside? No one appears to see that as their space. You walk around some of the housing schemes in Almaty and it is a struggle, the plants are all overgrown, the grass isn't cut and the steps are crumbling away. There are holes in the pavements. I think that is quite interesting. If there was somehow a mechanism for keeping this clean and well maintained, it could encourage a little more pride in the area. It would make a massive difference to the way people feel about the place where they live?
Asel: That is the goal of "Arman Alma-Ata" project. Pride. We want to encourage people that Almaty is beautiful. We have beautiful buildings, beautiful landscape. So you start to appreciate, you start to change. And back to your question. Maybe it is in our culture, in our mentality? Maybe it reflects who we are? Last Saturday when we were walking around, sketching the streets. We were talking about Deleuze, his idea of War Machine and State Apparatus. The French philosopher wrote about the nomads. We are just warriors, and are meant to have that kind of life style. It is a pretty philosophical approach.
There is a lot of conversation globally about modernism in architecture at the moment. Buildings from the Soviet modernism are absolutely great examples of how the architects while they were given a command to design something strictly typical and standard, they would still fight for Alma-Ata unique architecture, applying some Kazakh style, for example, The Palace of Republic or Arasan hammam.
Mike: Some of the ideas go back to some archeological things: the Sax, the golden man and things being discovered in archeological finds. It established the identity as well.
I think in terms of city tourism or urban tourism it is more of an economical issue than architectural. And it comes to the question of pride again really. I think that more people will find out about Kazakhstan. The country has an awful lot to offer in terms of tourism, in terms of scale, all the differ- ent parts of it, the various landscapes and its unique cities.
Asel: We should appreciate the fact that we have architects who put loads of effort into making really cool things. Rather than just looking at the western world. Maybe the answer is where we are at the moment. And I discovered this after be- ing away for few years. Coming back from London I found Almaty such a charming and inspiring place in many ways.
Interview: Étage Magazine
Date: April, 2016
Date: April, 2016